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tv   Democracy Now  LINKTV  November 21, 2017 8:00am-9:01am PST

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11/21/17 11/21/17 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from papacifica, this is demomocracy now! me. can see the sky abobove minutes, i felt i was in a dream. i didn't realize what had happened. but then i looked left to my wife. i could not see her. all i saw was debris. ceiling hadf the
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broken and fell on her. so all i see was cement, concrete blocks. i did not see her. amy: basim razzo lost his family in a u.s. airstrike in 2015 in momosul, iraq. the strikikeideo shows hihit with milititary precisioi. today y we speak with basim and the co-authors of "the uncounted" that reveals u.s. air strikes against islamic militants in iraq have killed far more civilians than anyone has acknowledged. survivors are left to wonder why their families were targeted. >> we went to the sites of more than 103 airstrikes in different areas of iraq, parts that were formally held by isis, and cased each to figure out where every airstrike happened. we found one and five resulted in a civilian death. this is 31 times higher than the
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figures the government uses. amy: we will speak with reporters azmat khan and anand gopal, co-authors of "the newew york times" investigation. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. cbs news has suspended charlie rose and pbs and bloombeberg tv have stopped airing "the charlie rose show" after eight women accused the famous tv brbroadcaster r of sexual harassment, including groping them, making lewd phone calls, and d walking arouound naked orn an untethered bathrobe. one former intern for charlie "the washington post" that rose repeatedly walked around naked in front of her and repeatedly groped her, including one time when he "grabbed me by my hair, holding a fist of it at the base of my scalp."
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another time, she says they were traveling on a small private plane when he got out of his seat and lay on top of her, pressing his body into hers. other women accused rose of forcefully touching or trying to touch them without their consent. one woman describes being in the midst of a job hiring process with charlie rose, having a ready been told salary and job title when he took her out to afterng island estate sitting by the p pool later nigt with her computer return naked in an open bathrobe and forcedd his hands down her pants. according to "the washington post" expose, a number of people at " "the charlie e rose show" w about rose's alleged sexual harassment, including the longtime producer yvette vega. "the post" spoke to over 200 people for the article, and at least a dozen more women have come forward to "the post" since the article was published
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yesterday. in response to the investigation, charlie rose said -- "i deeply apologize for my inappropriate behavior." this is gayle king, co-anchor of cbs "this morning." >> i'm struggling. how do you -- what do you say when someone you deeply care about has done something that is so horrible? how do you wrap your brain around that? i am really grappling with that. that said, charlie does not get aa pass here, he doesn't get a pass from anyone here. amy: that was gayle king, co-anchor of cbs "this morning." it is the latest of a series of sexual harassment to of been politicacal worlds and media in the wake of the harvey weinstein scandal who is now being criminally investigated after dozens of women came forward to , assault, andrape
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sexual harassment. "the new york times" has suspended prominent investigative reporter glenn thrush after multiple women told the website vox that thrush had forcibly touched them or kissed them withohout their consent. a second woman has accused minnesota senator al franken of groping her, saying franken grabbed her buttock at the minnesota state fair in 2010, two years after franken was elected to the senate. and in breaking news, michigan congressman john conyers settled a sexual harassment complaint in 2015, paying out $27,000 to a woman who alleged she was fired from his washington staff because she rejected his sexual advances. a topssman conyers is democrat on the house judiciary committee. hundreds of farm workers and their supporters rallied monday night outside the manhattan offices of wendy's board chairman nelson peltz to protest sexual harassment, assault, and
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violence in the tomato fields. the coalition of immokalee workers are demanding wendy's sign on to the fair food program aimed at protecting farm workers' rights, including the right to work without sexual harassment and assault, which has been pervasive in the agricultural industry. this is farm worker lupe gonzalo. >> we are demanding that wendy's sign an agreement to guarantee human rights for farmworkers, in particular the rights of women working in the fields. for the first time in history, we as farmworker women are living a new day, an opportunity to work in the fields free from sexual harassment. wendy's has, -- but decided toovove its tomato purchases to mexico, where violence is endemic. amy: the white house is continuing to endorse alabama republican senate candidate roy moore, despite the fact that nine women have accused moore of sexual harassing or assaulting
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them when they were teenagers. "the new yorker" magazine reports moore was banned from a local mall and a ymca in alabama because he repeatedly badgered teenage girls, in some cases soliciting sex from young girls. this is senior white house aide kellyanne conway bashing moore's opponent, doug jones, in an inteterview withox news. >> jones and alabama, folks, don't be fooled. he will be a vote against tax cuts. he is weak on crime and borders. he is strong on raising your taxes. he is terrible for property owners. he is not saying anything and why the media are trying to boost him. >> for vote roy moore? >> we want the votes in the senate to get this tax bill through. amy: that is kellyanne conway, trump aide, speaking on fox news.
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in its latest immigration crackdown, the trump administration has announced it will revoke a special immigration program for nearly 60,000 haitians, including many who came to the u.s. after the devastating 2010 earthquake in haiti. the trump administration now says their temporary protected status, or tps, will end in july of 2019. this is marleine bastien, executivive directctor of haitin women of miami, speaking on democracy now! earlier this year. ,> it is in the best interest the national interest of the u.s. for the 58,000 plus haitians to remain here, contribute socially, financially, and otherwise and keep it flowing so people will not risk their lives to come these ways result of of deportation. amy: you can see the full interview at democracynow.org. meanwhile, a federal judge in california has blocked president trump's executive order to
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withhold funding from so-called sanctuary cities. district judge william orrick ordered the injunction after ruling the trump administration's attempts to force cities to mobilize local police to cooperate with the federal government's mass deportation plans was . the trump administration has asked the u.s. supreme court to allow trump's latest travel ban to take affect following an appeals court ruling last week that blocked part of it from being enacted. this latest travel ban removes sedan from the original list and added the countries of chad and government, and some officials from venezuela. the latest order also includes restrictions on citizens from iraq as well as all citizizens f a rant, libya, syria, yemen, and somalia. nebraska regulators have approved the controversial keystone xl pipeline, dealing a major blow to the nearly decade-long battle to stop the project.
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on monday, regulators rejected transcanada's preferred route but approved an alternative path for r the pipeline, , which woud link u up with an existiting nek ofof pipelines to carrrry oil fm cananada's tar sasands regigionn alberta to refineries as f far away as the gulf of mexico. opponents say the keystone xl pipeline threatens to pollute nebraska's ogallala aquifer while accelerating greenhouse gas emissions from oil extracted in canada's tar sands region. monday's approval comes only days after in south dakota, transcanada was forced to shut part of its keystone 1 pipeline after a massive rupture spilled 210,000 gallons of oil into a nearby field. president trump has officially designated north korea as a state sponsor of terrorism, escalating the rising tensions between the two countries. other countries on the list are sudan, syria, and iran.
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the diplomatic move comes amid an escalating threat of nuclear war, with trump repeatedly threatening to totally destroy north korea and to unleash fire and fury on the nation of 25 million people. this is secretary of state rex tillerson. >> i call it the piece for pressure campaign. the president calls at the maximum pressure campaign. they are one and the same. i think it is to hold north korea accountable for a number of actions that they have taken. amy: in news on the u.s. war in afghanistan, the u.s. air force is on track to triple the number of bombs dropped this year, compared with last year. the major increase in bombing comes as the trump administration has deployed thousands more u.s. troops to afghanistan in recent months. by e early 2018, there a are sld to be about 16,000 u.s. troops there. the ongoing u.s. war in
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afghanistan is the longest war in u.s. . history. meanwhile, the u.s. military has also sharply increased bomombing in somalia in recent days. "the new york times" reports the u.s. has carried out at least five drone strikes since november 9, killing at least 40 people. from the pentagon claims are militants with our shabab. this comes as a new report from brown university's costs of war project estimates that the u.s. wars since the 9/11 attacks in 2001 will cost up to $8 trillion in interest payments alone over the coming decades. their report says the u.s. has already spent $4.3 trillion on the wars and that the u.s. will be paying trillions of dollars in interest on the war debt for decades to come. in nigeria, a suicide bombing at a mosque in the northeast has killed up to 50 people. no group has claimed responsibility for the attack, though local officials blamed it
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on boko haram. in zimbabwe, longtime leader robert mugabe is continuing to refuse to resign amid a an escalangng politicalal standofin ththe country. zimbabwe's ruling party is expected to begin impeachment proceedings today. last week, mugabe was placaced under house arrest after zimbabwe's military seized parliament, courts, government offices, and the capital's main airport in an apparent coup. robert mugabe has held power since zimbabwe declared independence from britain 37 years ago. on monday, students went on strike, boycotting their exams and calling for mugabe to step down. >> [indiscernible]
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amy: back in the united states, the head of puerto rico's electric power agency, known as prepa, has resigned, as half the island still has no electricity two months after hurricane maria. ricardo ramos had faced widespread outrage for signing a $300 million contract with the tiny montana-based company whitefish, named after the hometown of interior secretary ryan zinke. whitefish is now threatening to claiming the power authority owes the company $83 million. the justice department has sued to block a proposed $85 billion merger between at&t and time warner, setting the stage for one of the biggest anti-trust lawsuits in decades. the merger would give at&t control over warner bros. film and television studios, along with cnn, tnt, hbo and many other brands.
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many say the justice department lawsuiuit could bebe politicalay motivated as it cocomes after president trump has spent months threatening and disparaging cnn, whwhich isis owned by time warn. the federal communications commission's chairman ajit pai is expected to announce today a sweeping plan to repeal all net neutrality rules. the rules were adopted in 2015 to keep the internet open and prevent corporate service providers from blocking access to websites, slowing down content, or providing paid fast lanes for internet service. the new plan to scrap those rules is expected to be voted on during a december meeting of fcc commissionerers. and people gathered in cities across the united states and the world on monday for the annual transgendeder day of remembranc. at least 25 transgender people
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have an murdered so far this year in the united states. the majority of whom were black and -- black trans women. across the world, more than 300 trans people have been reported murdered so far this year. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. juan: and i'm juan gonzalez. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. today we spend the hour looking at a damning new report that reveals how u.s.-led airstrikes against islamic state militants in iraq have killed far more civililians than officiaials haf knowledge. the pentagon claims its air war against the self-proclaimed islamic state has killed just 89 civilians. but an oththe-grnd inveigation "thnew york mes" foundhe actual civilian deh totollay be e times higher than the s.s. is admittin thr repoportevealslshat as many a1 1 in 5oaliliti aiaitrikes on isis targets i
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iraq resuld d in ciliaian deat.. through porters -- the reporters wre ---- "in terms of civilian ataths, thisisay be the least tranarenenwar in recent erican htory." thininvestation cos as u.s. litary offials say t bombg in mos was preci in hittg its taets. this is army lt. general stephen j. townsend. thatreject any notion coalition fires were in any way targeted, unlawful, or civilians. i would argue, i believe, the most precise campaign in history of warfare. we have gone to extraordinary measures to safeguard civilian lives. amy: but "the new york times" investstigation reveals many of the american-led airstrikes against islamic state militants actually killed civilians. one of the survivors
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interviewed, basim razzo, described an airstrike on his home in mosul, iraq, in 2015 in which his wife, daughter, brother, andnd nephew werere ki. video o of the strikike on his e shows a targrget hit with h mily precision.n. well, , today we arere joined fm iraq by basim razzo. we are also joined in our new york studio by the two reporters who co-authored this "new york times" investigation headlined "the uncounted." azmat khan is an investigative journalist and a future of war fellow at new america and arizona state university. and anand gopal is an assistant research professor at arizona state university and the author of "no good men among the living." i want to starart off in iraq wh basim razzo. basim, that is not actually your longtime home.
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you lived in mosul until 201015. can you describe what happened on that fateful night when your home was f by a u.s. airstrtrike? >> good morning, amy. thank you fofor having m me on r prram. that night, as i said in my ory, i went to b bed arounund 1:00. daughterust checked myy to see if she was asleep. and i lied down. then i woke up to a devastating explosion. did nonot realizize what had happppened. i felt that i was i in a nigigme felt that something hahad happened bececause i lookp to the skies and i could see the stars. there was a terrible smell in the air.
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feeling myi started legs, pinching myself. i thought i was in d dream orr ninightmare, but it wass realit. i looked to the left of my wife and alall i could sesee was deb. i s started shouting her name. she e did not t answer me. i started shoung at my dadaughter. no answer. and then i started shouting at my brothers house, but i could not hear a sound. minutes later, i could hear a sound from far away. it seems i it was the groundskeeper that we have, his house was about 500 meters from my house. minutes later, he ststarted shouting at me.e. , i amd "uncle basim coming, but i needed to get a ladder so i can climb up.
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are you ok?" i said, please, help me, i think i am very hurt and somomething s broken. i cannot move." i tried to stand up, but i fell down. i reached my back because i felt it was warm. i touched my back and i felt something in my left arm, something wass warm. it was blood. my back had been injured. my left foot had broken. , whichwas in a v-shape resulted in a break to m my hip. i tried to move just a little bit but i could not move at all. hearnutes later, i could her groundskeeper climbing up to me. and ththen he came to me and he said "are you ok?"
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i saidid, "i am badly hurt. what has happened to the other house?" i could "i don't know hear a few mill south. what i started shouting, it was my sister-in-law. she said "everybody is gone." but i could not see anything. it was very dark. the street was dark. everything was dark. and then about half an hour later, i could see somebody was walking, entering the farm with torch lights. and they clilimbed up the ladder and three members of isis were looking down at me. so the first thing i said to them was, , "are you happy?" they looked at me and discussed and they left me.
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they climbed down on ladder and left. had called an ambulance but they did not let it come right away because usually when there is a bombing, most of the time it is followed by a second bombing so they want to stay out. like 15left foror anotherer minutes. when they could hear the planes were out of the sky, then order the ambulance to enter my farm. the took me down, put me in ambulance, and rushed to the hospital. when i reached the hospital, it was chaos. i was disoriented. i didn't know what was happening. i was in pain. it then i looked around and was all isis members. but some person, he capped on my shoulder and said, "uncle basim,
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don't worry, i know you are here , my son, don't worry. don't worry." he started rushing me and clean my wound in my back. they did some x-raysys. they did a c.t. scan. they were afraid i had brain damage or hemorrhage. and god, i did not have anything. they put a cast on my left foot. ththen i woke up the next mornig around 10:00 with my brother-in-law and another friend. and they told me what had just happened. they told me that all of the members of my family are gone. , our deepestazzo condolences to you and your family. you mentioned your brother's house was next door. how many total members of ththe family werere in both houses and what - -- how many survived and
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what kind of injuries did they have? >> in my house, it was me, my .ife, and my daughter in my brothers house, which was like 20 feet away from my house, it was my brother, his wife, and his son. only his wifee survivived will p so total, four deathths, two susurvivals. describe the last day with your wife and your daughter? usually, before isis i could come home late like 10:00 or 11:00. but since isis injured mosul, it is better for m me to be home early. i would sit with my family, my .rothers family
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i would come hohome from work around 5:00 or 6:00. amy: you had had a party the night before i your brothers house? >> we did. mymyife and mymy daughter attend the party. we just have tea. it is sundown. the temperature cools down a little bit. it was september and it is very high in september in iraq. so about 8:00 or 9:00 we would go out to the front yard. maybe coldve tea, drinks, maybe some fruit. we would stay late until like 10:00 or 11:00. and that was my -- hours before my accident. juan: the mention of the strike. how often were these airstrikes visited on mozilla or on your neighborhood in particular? for these regular occurrences or was this unusual i in your
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neigighborhood? >> at that time, there was not that much bombing. you would hear some bombing every now and then, but he was not that oftften. bubuyou could d hear drones in e sky. but for bombing, it was not that often. "thethere is a picture in new york times" investigation of your daughter and the night before the airstrike. she has a sparkler you describe. >> yes. she had found it somewhere. i think it was -- we had bought it earlier for her birthday. but it was left somewhere. she lit it. i was shouting at her because it was dangerous to light it inside. i said, go outside. she said, i think it is damaged because of the humidity so it is not sparkling that much. i will be safe. thank god she was safe.
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but she lost her life later. amy: w we're goingng to go to bk and come back and hear what happened next. twoill be joined by the reporters who have investigated the attack on not only your home and your brother's, but so many others in mozilla, iraq. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. please, stay with us. ♪ [music break]
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amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. we are spending the hour looking at a "new york times"
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investigation that reveals many of the american-led airstrikes against islamic state militants actually killed civilians. one of the survivors the reporters intererviewed describd a coaoalition airststrike on his home in mosusul, iraq, andnd 20n whwhich his wifife am a daugugh, brother, andnd nephew were kill. view of ththe strike on n his he shows a tatarget hit with mility precision. amy: basim razzo is joining us. you hurt a part of his story in our last segment as he speaks to us from iraq. we're joined in our studio by the two authors of the investigation headlined "the uncounted." , investigative ,ournalist and anand gopal system research professor at arizona state university and the author of the book "no good men among the living." about the u.s.k
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figures for how many civilians have died, how many airstrikes, how many civilians killed. i think we got our number wrong a little bit. and then what you found. >> so the coalition, which is led by the united states, releases monthly civilian casualty figures. our analysis of them shows they have admitted to 466 iraqi civilian deaths and in 89 airstrikes. this is of more than 14,000 have carried out in iraq, which is an incident rate of .6%. 6%. less than point 6%. we found one in five airstrikes, or 31 times as high, resulted in civilian deaths. juan: your analysis is based not on loosely on the 14,000, but you investigated about 103 separate incidents. years,over roughly four
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we're talking about 100 airstrikes a day on average that work ring in iraq in this war against isis. >> many of these took place near or around the time of liberation, but they were ongoing throughout. we saw an escalation around the time that mosul are parts of mosul were retaken. you're basically looking at our sample, which was in east mosul in a neighborhood, a town --mosul is densely packed neighborhood in east mosul. then we have a municipality. after that, we had the downtown, a small settlement typical of many isis-held areas. juan: and you actually went on the ground interview people who were there at the time to find out what happened. >> exactly. we interviewed hundreds of survivors. we excavated the rubble.
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we look for any presence of isis , whether that was in propaganda analyzedls, weaponry, we bomb fragments and satellite imagery before and after in order to assess the date ranges of when these airstrikes that happen. we also checked all of the civilian casualty allegations with local administrators, health officials, or law enforcement. amy: anand gopal, how does the u.s. military gather its numbers? >> most of these numbers come from internal reports by the u.s. military itself. for example, if they notice a mission irregularity, let's say a pilot is dropping a bomb and all of the sudden a civilian vehicle e appears s after ththeb is dropped. they will report that to their superiors. they will, investigate that. occasionally, they get reports from outside sources, from the media, from air wars that tracks these things. they can were often than not to
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actually discount those reports and it is her own internal reports they take the most seriously -- which is why the number is so low, for hundred 66 civilians killed in 14,000 airstrikes. if that was true, it would make it must precise air war in history of humanity. but because the threshold for what qualifies as evidence for being a civilian is extremely high muscle in practice, people like basim in fact are guilty until proven innocent. amy: is basim included in this count? >> initially, he was in. wasrge part of our pressing distressed that point. they were listed as isis, basically. after the airstrikike on his house,e, the coalition f for the video of the strike claiming it was an ied factory, car bomb factory. you could have gone on youtube and found the video of the
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bombing that destroyed his famimily for over r a year. it was o only after wewe found s and sosort of showeded thihis te coalitition that thehey took itf youtube. after a longng process of f huns of emailss and back anand forth, theyey admitted ththey kiilled s family and they were civilians. they were eventually added to the count. today they are part of the count, but had not been for many years. juan: the issue of the preciseness that the military is touting that they hit exactly what they're looking for, your report suggests the problem is not so much in the munitions themselves, but in the intelligence of what are the targets they actually strike. that is faulty intelligence will stop can you talk about that? >> talking about precision in some ways is slight of hand. it is true, they are very precise. they hit exactly what they intend to hit. the question is, what do theyey ink they''re h hitting? the intelligence is often so poor -- it goes back to the issusue of iraqisisaving to proe
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theyey are not isis, which is te oppoposite of f what we e would. wewe wouould thinknk the coaoaln would do the work to find out whether somebody is a member of isisis or not. theyey assume e people are isis until proven otherwise. amy: basim razzo, i want to go back to you. now you are in irbil. your home is in momosul. you and to western michigan university here in the united states? was in western michigan and graduated in 1988 with an industrial engineering degree. amy: and you traveled with your wife is sort of a love journey across the country? >> yes, that was in 1982 when she joined me. honeymoon forke a about 40 days around the united states in my car. amy: you moved home to mosul.
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your family was killed in 2015. what has been your interaction with the u.s. military? >> well, first, when i was in turkey for my operation, i from thea text american embassy in baghdad saying that woululd like to contact me. texted them back and set a was in turkey and would get in touch with them as soon as i was back in baghdad. about december., i texted them and they gave me an appointment to meet with them in february. that is when i visited the american consul in baghdad. i wrote down the report. i gathered some pictures, some aerial shots of my farm. embassy.nt to the
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i submitted the report to them. the woman who interviewed me, she told me that they would have righte sure that i was and pass my information to the dod for verification. likeer heard from them for two months. i.e. milled them back -- i emailed them back in the lady said that she still had not heard anything from them. nothing for months until like five or six months later. i.e. imo the letter and it was returned saying the mailbox is full. that is when i started doubting something was going on. that is when i really -- when things startrted running from there. amy: the reporter who did this amazing piece along with anand gopal for "the new york times." can you describe your meeting, when you went to the u.s. embassy and, was it, baghdad?
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tell us what you are demanding and what it was that they gave you. ,> when i submitted my reports she looked at it and then she went inside to a room and came back like 15 minutes later. demandedmy report, that first and most important thing to me was for them to state clearly that this bombing is a mistake. this was to clear my name so i would no longer be afraid to go back to mosul. at that time, i was labeled as isis. my second demand was for them to compensate me for the losses of my family. i demanded compensation for my injury. i had lost my job because of my injury. so this was basically my demands in my report that i submitted. juan: and what was their
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response? >> well, it took them months and azmat -- if it wasn't for khan pushing -- at first they the bombing was mistake. but it took months and months of emailing back and forth. they still have not provided me with a clear letter saying the bombing was done by mistake. then they gave me an appointment to look -- to offer me a payment. when i met with them at irbil airport, this lady lawyer, she expressed her sorrow and deepest sympathy to my accident. she said, we are sorry, we know the bombing was done by mistake. ir the second or third time said, listen, i need an explicit letter from you saying that the bombing was done by mistake.
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she said, ok, i promise i will get you this letter. and then they offered me the payment of $15,000. it was compensation for the death of my wife and my daughter -- which i immediately declined. she said "i'm sorry, sir, this is the most we can do."" and then i asked her for one more request. my farm has been ransacked by government officials. thereot say who because were so many government agencies that entered mosul and liberated mosul, be of the army, the federal units, i don't know, but they entered my farm and hahave ransacked it and have stolen so many things. i said "listen, lady, i need you to help me get the word to whoever is in charge of that area that stop anybody from entering the premises."
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she also promised she would get in touch through the american commanders the local to stop anybody from entering. but this has not happened. actually, until about three weeks ago, they have entered the premises again and have stolen more material from storage that we have. i want to ask azmat khan, this is a family that is a professional family, well educated, middle-class. there are many others who are victims who are not so fortunate and don't have the ability to really confront the coalition. you talk about one case in april of 2015 where 18 civilians were killed and where the coalition is still saying there's insufficient evidence that any civilians were killed in that attack.. what is happening with all of these other cases? >> that particular incident was
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an electrical substation in east mosul, for which there is ample evidence online. the i interviewed people on ground, dozens said, go online and you will find the videos. i did. who wereed children hurt. some of their legs were blown off. these young, young children, boys and girls, there is no doubt about whether or not they are civilians. so this is readily available to the coalition. but in the coalition's own assessment of the incident, they concluded there was insufficient evidence. to speak to this excellent point about how so many survivors that i have met really don't have the resources or access or networks in a way that basim did, for example, to an arranged meeting not e even seekd necessary medical treatment. one family in mosul had three
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injured. they lost eight individuals in an airstrike last november in east mosul. what they told me was that "we are still injured" and the women took me to the room and the back and one woman revealed her headscarf and pulled open a cap and you could see the skull visible from the top. another woman -- juan: she had no medical treatment. expensiveeded really surgeries. ultimately what we did is provided all of the cordon it of these airstrikes to both the coalition and to the u.s. air force after we had visitited the base and qatar. what they told us in the case of, for example, the incident i just described with these injured women who could not afford medical treatment, was in that case, they conducted an airstrike just meters away on that day. so this is very likely a coalition airstrike. and these individuals, who often don't even have cell phones that
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are working all of the time, have very little means and access. we have turned over all of those allegations that were close to where the coalition reported cocoordinates to us. we are waititing to hear respone to them about whether or not they are even going to investigate them. wentazmat khan, when basim to the u.s. lawyer and he laid out all he had lost -- this is outside of the agony of the loss of his family, his wife and daughter, his nephew, deeply close to him and his brother next door -- talked about what the houses were worth. he owns a downtown building in $500,000.ething like and then they set altogether, $15,000 if he signs on the dotted line. how common is this? this talking about even would not have happened, though here's not gotten a letter that he is not part of isis even if they say to him privately, how
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typical is this? >> this is one of two condolence this war.fers in so since august 2014, some 27,000 airstrikes in both iraq and syria, this is one of two offers. this is the only one made for civilian deaths. the e other ofoffer made was for damage to a car in a separate airstrike, but not -- amy: how much has been allocated? > every o of the lalast two s congngress has authorized 5 5 millllion dollllars in f funds e used for payments s like thehes. there hahave only y been t two s made. basim is the only offer for civilian death made in that time. in the $15,000, itit was foror s wife and daughteter only. that is even n higher than what they ordinarily offer, which is usually capped at $2500 per death. amy: did it have something to do with you being there? >> anan was in the meeting with
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them. amy:y: describe that meeting and your participation. >> i went with basim at the meeting at the irbil airport. we did not know what they were going to be offer but we did not expected to be high. in the meeting, jag officials explained that the offer they were going to make wasn't an offer of compensation, but of condolence. it was an important difference because the u.s. military is not in the business of compensating civilians who have lost things. the problem is, from their perspective, they feel if thehey star compensating people for what they have lost, then they will have to pay out hundreds of millions of dollars and it would impede their ability to wage a war. instead, it is an offer of condolence, ultimately, with the idea of not having iraqis upset at them. juan: what is been the reaction by the u.s. military, by the
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coalition, central article came out? >> almost nothing, actually. we have been waiting to hear something from them. we gave them all of our essential findings way before the article was published, three or four weeks before, and asked them for comment on each specific individual allegation that was made in the peace and we have not heard a thing falls of amy: we're going to break and come b back to thihis discussio. andguests are azmat khan anand gopal, co-authors of "the uncounted." wife,razzo lost his brother, daughter, and nephew in an airstrike in mosul, iraq, in 2015. ♪ [music break]
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amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. as we continue to spend the hour looking at a damning report that reveals how u.s. led airstrike against islamic state militants have killed far more civilians than officials have acknowledged. the pentagon claims 466 civilians have been killed in 89 airstrike since 2014. juan: but an on-the-ground investigation found the actual civilian death toll is much higher than the u.s. is admitting. the report reveals as many as 1 in 5 coalition airstrikes on isis targets in iraq resulted in civilian deaths. reporters write --
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for more, we're joined by the two reporters who co-authored this investigation titled "the uncounted." azmat khan is an investigative journalist and a future of war fellow at new america and arizona state university. and anand gopal is an assistant research professor at arizona state university and the author of "no good men among the living." via with us is basim razzo video stream. about -- ialked understand he is in the dark right now because the electricity has gone out in his city. his line is still working with us. , in ourlike to ask you headlines, we reported the united states is going to end up spending trillions of dollars
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just in interest on all of -- over the next decades on all of the military, the interventions in iraq and syria. you hearering when this enormous amount of funds and it you find you are one of civivilians who suffered from a u.s. airstrike that has actually been offered any kind of payment, your reaction when you hear the enormous sums spent yet so little the united states is setting aside for the victims of mistaken attacks? amy: i think is light has just come on. >> yes, it just came on. wewell, really, it is very upsetting because, actually, the the civilianheard life of an iraqi killed was $2500, which was really, really upsetting, i felt it was
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degrading. and i talked to one person. i said, "how would you feel if you are in an airplane accident in the united states and you and t theody you loved airline would give you $2500?" he said "i would be o outraged." i said, "how do you think i feel?by wife , brother, daughter, and nephew were killed by an airstrike and they were innocent civilians and now they offered me $15,000 to bring people." i was outraged by this amount. very, very upset. amy: anand gopal, can you talk about the effect of this on iraq? the far more -- far greater number of civilians killed then the u.s. is willing to admit as it says it is rounding out isis,
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the so-called islamic state? >> the u.s. effectively defeated isis, but at the cost of destroying entire cities and leaving thousands, if not tens of thousands of families completely broken. mosul is an example in which at least half of the city is nearly in rubble. in there not accidents sense that we would normally think about it. these are policy decisions. for instance, in mosul, the city was surrounded and civilians -- and isis fighters -- were not allowed to leave, which was one of the conditions which induced isis to take civilians hostage and led to extraordinary numbers of civilian casualties. , your studykhan area was east mosul, but some of the worst damage was in west mosul. you think the casualty figures may actually be much higher than even your study shows?
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>> yes. not just because we do not include west mosul, but also because these airstrikes that we were serving, the 103 in a sample, occurred before a rule change that started last december under president obama that authorized more ground commanders to be able to call in and approve airstrikes. and many believe this was one of the reasons why we saw a spike in civilian casualties from these e airstrikes. but i also want to pointnt out, at w we found to be a l lack of abilility to investigate propery by the coalition. what we found repeatedly during the course of our investigation is not jusust that they were n t necessarily lococating evidencer verifying e evidence for allelegations, but also that thy sometimes lacked the of permission to even determine sometimes whether in your strike was a coalition airstrike or their own. in its and even more than that
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ththat we passed on, we were tod sometimes, listen, this particular airstrike was not us. it is unlikely to be us. the nearest one we carried out was as far as 600 meters away. but then we would find coalition videos uploaded by the coalition itself showing us airstrikes in the places that we had pinpointed or in that area. when we followed up, we were told "we can only tell you what the log shows." we had this happen n on several occasions. it shows their logs are incomplete or what they're searching is incomplete. the number one reason they cite when they deny civilian casualty allegations is that they have no record of a coalition airstrike taking place in a geographic area. and that cast doubt on the credibility investigation so far. amy: have they taken down these youtube videdeos? >> they have. they still exist on other military websites, but youtube was the one place where people could comment. words, to follow
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up, what you're suggesting is the actual record keeping logs of where the attacks occurred are sometimes incorrect, which could d either mean, one, just sloppy log keeping by ththe soldiers involved were deliberate reports of the run cordis of attack. >> is troubling these were not kept in a way that was conducive to accurately investigating or investigating properly because andnde were told onlnly qatatar wewent to the c combined airr operations c center, we hahave % authority over w where we drop r weapons. we know exactly where they are landing. and that turned out in some cases not to be true. amy: the u.s. military says it is the most precise war in targeting they have ever encased in. we only have a minute and we want to give that minute to the focus of your story, though you tell many.
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as we talk about what has happened to basim razzo, your final comment, your message to the world? i want to add one more thing. just like azmat khan said, because ththere was no exixit corridor for isis, they were forced to stay and fight. the excessive use of force, because some -- probably one member of isis would be on the roof of f a building. numbers of isis on a man's roof and the whole house was bombed. this was excessive use of force. offriends in mosul told me real prerecision bomombing onn small cars a and only the e car wowould be hit. but t whenou want t to kill one person, you demolilish a whole house? this is really terrible. i'm sorry for the loss that has happened. i really would like the theirans to restudy
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strategy. amy: we are going to have to leave it there. thank you so much for being with us, basim razzo, azmat khan, and anand gopal. we will link to their story "the uncounted." [captioning made possible by democracy no
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